Posted by: joshjasper | February 7, 2011

The Fog of War

Our war has waged for decades, claiming innocent lives, and has been fought by thousands upon thousands of women and men throughout the world. I have been engaged in this battle for nearly a decade, and for those ten years I have rarely come face to face with my foe, but have been confident that we have been winning the war. I woke this morning after a fitful night of sleep and realized that I have been duped and I now find myself surrounded.

Accolades and applause comes easy for a man in this struggle. I need only to lead the charge one time for people to take notice. This praise has protected me from the fight. We fight for those that have been abused, marginalized, and forgotten. We speak out against sexism, racism, and homophobia. But I was reminded today that I have never been oppressed, and because I have lacked that experience, I have truly minimized the breadth of our enemy. No one has ever wanted me to die because of my gender, threatened my life because of my sexual orientation, and I’ve never been excluded from anything due to my race.

Over the past 12 hours I have received hundreds of e-mails filled with rage. These individuals state that they are angry because I have dismissed male survivors in our work, glossed over the reality that women are violent, and only focus on the demise of men. These allegations could not be further from the truth.

Please note that your recent attacks have only provided me with a great deal of insight. Never again will I downplay your seething hatred toward others. I know now who you are and will begin organizing our counterattack.

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Responses

  1. I can see your (well hidden) panic at the peons and wage slaves learning the truth and working to escape from the man-plantation. We’ll never go back to ignorance and blind servitude. We are men, we are black, we are brown, we are white, we are gay and we have united against you and your deceit.

  2. Poester99-

    Good to hear from you buddy. Sounds like things are good.

  3. It is so sad that society does not see the good that Mr. Jasper is trying to do. He is a fine man. He cares about ALL mankind. It is so easy for people to ignore the fact that rape and sexual assault do occur. To men as well as women. This must be stopped. Society has played such a big role in men looking down on women. There are always going to people who feel they have to “control” people. God would never want our society to be so ignorant an allow so many people to be hurt. Because this type of hurt will stay with u forever. It will change what u think of yourself. It will change how u treat others. It will effect our trust issues in future relationships. It becomes a vicious cycle. We will never all think alike. But as humans, we have the power to respect someone else’s point of view. And to keep an open mind. Josh is here to make a better world for all of us. Including a safer environment for all our children. Do not put this man down. But applaud him for the courage to speak out for all victims.

  4. Josh, it looks like you received the same “awareness” that intended on giving to people. Only sad thing is that you turned it into “seething hatred” like you professed those animals you claim to lack understanding into caring for other human beings. What is truly lost is the “pain” that was sent in the message to you, for you to understand. That is the true sign of a person willing to overcome the adversity of the problem and work to a common solution. The person who is willing to find the TRUE underlying cause of the problem and not a perceived ideal.

    Stereotyping never leads to a good solution. I saw that Rantgrl gave you some good dialog to think about. Maybe a wholistic solution would be a better approach rather than focusing on a gender based idea. Humanity is complex and deserves a better physiological view than just a biological analysis or “organizing our counterattack”.

  5. Society does not see the good Jasper is trying to do because he is not trying to do good. Rather than use science and due diligence to address a social ill his is playing gender politics and dragging babies into an extant mess and making worse.

    And now he is, true to the feminist ideology of victimhood, painting himself as a martyr to his cause.

    We have seen this shopworn dishonesty a thousand times over. Unfortunately for Jasper, there is a rising tide of men and women of all walks of life that are finally starting to speak up against the politics of hate he is employing.

    The party is up, Josh. You just don’t know it yet.

  6. As I’ve said in a comment on your Youtube video:
    As someone who works in this field to help abuse victims and ending Violence, Someone like me shouldn’t have to send you information about female perpetrated Violence. You should already know about it. Murray Strauss and Martin Fiebert Have done a crapload of research on it, There’s the Innocence Project, There is plenty of research and information about this, yet you wage this one sided attack on men.

    Why do you feign ignorance If not to make men and masculinity look like the stereotypical woman-beating Joe Sixpack?

    And then here you are here, on your blog talking about “I know who you are, and we’re preparing a counterattack” I guess you mean to say that everyone you pissed off (rightly so, might I add) with your man-hate video are the violent, Girlfriend beating stereotype you’re addressing in your god awful video? And you’re going to counter-attack us?

    An intellectually honest person would, instead look at the response, then think to himself “Hmm…do they have a reason to be pissed? should I maybe look into what’s going on here? Is my video really so misandric? am I really doing Violence survivors an injustice??”

    And an intellectually honest person wouldn’t be pretending to not know of the other side of DV or the other side of Rape Allegations and how a little less than half (45%) of them are FALSE

  7. So I said to my buddy the other day
    “Guess what! I went on a date with Ashley, I told her that we were going to have sex”
    “lol what’s she say?”
    “She said that she ‘was tired and wanted to hurry to bed”
    “So I HIT that bitch! dragged her to her bed and pinned her down and raped her then and there, it was AWESOME”
    “Woah, dude, that’s GREAT You’re the most manly men ever!”
    “Yea, then I told my son ‘don’t ever let a woman tell you no, to let her say no would be depriving you of your MANHOOD”
    “Damn, your son is going to be the best rapist EVER! I saw the way he was looking at Lana he could have pulled off his diaper and did her right then!”

  8. People like you have claimed many lives, Josh. I know first-hand what your ilk has done to my life.

    It will never be forgotten. I promise.

  9. http://www.avoiceformen.com/2011/02/09/josh-jaspers-hate-campaign-and-what-to-do-about-it/

  10. Instead of communicating with those who do have constructive things to say you’d rather incite conflict. That’s not a good look for somebody with pretensions to ending violence. It’s starting to look as though you’re no better than, or different to, any of those you brand haters.

    Meanwhile one of those constructive contributors, a victim who is clearly not coping with any of this at all well, has left a rather disturbing message which you’ve totally ignored, preferring to go off to your little war games.

    WAKE UP.

    Please note that your recent attacks have only provided me with a great deal of insight. Never again will I downplay your seething hatred toward others. I know now who you are and will begin organizing our counterattack.

    Gee thanks, mate. Allow me to make it even easier for you to find me…

    Greg Allan
    192 Upper California Gully Road
    California Gully Victoria 3556
    Australia

    Ph 011+61 03 5446 9390

  11. “Never again will I downplay your seething hatred toward others. ”

    If that’s all you got from this, that’s sad.

  12. You have no honor Josh Jasper.

  13. Greg Allan is my new hero.

    As someone who has met Josh and knows who he is, I would have to say that everyone here is playing into his hand. He likes to get on his soapbox and spew controversy for his ’cause’. A lot of times his ’cause’ seems to get lost and it is difficult to see what his agenda is. More often than not, his agenda seems to be bettering Josh Jasper’s public image or getting his name known. I cannot say this enough….The Riverview Center is a GREAT organization and does a lot of good for my community, Dubuque. I have met many of the people who work there and have rallied behind them in the past at fundraisers and in commercials. Josh has taken the great things that the consolers do there, taken the focus off of how much they help, and turned the spotlight on him. And he wouldn’t have it any other way. The Riverview Center will be all that much better when he is no longer employed there. They will not have to worry about what this joker is out there saying and will not have to worry about bad public image. There are ways to create awareness and they are ways to set people off and create controversy. Josh needs to stop worrying about Josh, and start worrying about the victims of the community that he claims he helps. I am just thankful the rest of the staff at Riverview is so great at what they do so the people can get the help they need.

  14. Gents,
    feel free to click on this and see my post on mangina Joshs in my mangina hall of fame. Of course. I expect Josh will delete this post because he’s truly a coward inside.

    http://www.peternolan.com/Forums/tabid/420/forumid/57/threadid/698/scope/posts/Default.aspx

  15. @Tim…

    Thankyou for that information.

    I’ve been having trouble reconciling Josh’s attitude and actions with what I’ve seen amongst others in the field. This explains quite a lot.

    It might interest you to know that for the most part we dumped his sort of agenda years ago. The conflict it created both within and without our network just wasn’t worth it. There’s been far too much politics played with the lives of victims for far too long. Make no mistake his is a political agenda rather than one focussed on victims.

    I’ll continue to monitor this situation and will probably end up writing to the board when it’s settled down a bit. I’d be mainly keeping that to discussing the website and the videos and some things they could do to enhance them. I’m not inclined to want people sacked. It’s hard enough as it is to find competant people. It may be that Josh’s role and activities need to be more tightly controlled and monitored. The board of management are the only ones who can really do that.

    At the moment I’m really very worried about rantgrrl and her last post on the prior thread. I just can’t understand how Josh could turn his back on something like that that to go off playing soldiers. That is not good.

  16. I suggest you stop playing the victim and face Paul Elam like a man.

    How about a public debate? You could be on the radio, you coward.

  17. One in four women in the United States will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. Yet, unfortunately some people don’t want to hear this unpleasant truth. I applaud your willingness to take a risk and use unconventional methods to educate the public. It’s not about women against men. It’s about educating both girls and boys in our society about what constitutes appropriate sexual behavior. Keep up the great work, Josh!!!

  18. @Lynda Lee:
    The hurt of betrayal by women stays with men forever too, when they cheat, for example. When they take away his kids for no reason and poison them against him in so many little ways, that hurt never goes away. The act of cuckoldry hurts immensely, and forever damages a man who used to think a son was his. The hurt of a young boy abused by an older woman (he’s a boy, he’ll like it) never goes away, and is never treated for his whole life. He is only laughed at.

  19. My point is that rape is not the end-all be-all of emotional crimes. It’s just the best-enforced-against.

  20. @Josh
    I don’t have seething hatred, I don’t even hate you. I also don’t hurt or marginalize women. However, I am a man, and proud of it. I’m tough, aggressive, powerful, and my wife digs rough sex. Yours would too if you ever gave it to her. It doesn’t make you a rapist, but you would probably be unable to, for example, pull her hair even if she (secretly, but definitely) wants you to. Based on what I have posted in this thread, you have probably already categorized me as a misogynist, but you are completely and totally incorrect. Life is not so simple to put everyone into two categories (I suspect yours are women, and rapists). If you think I am your enemy, you couldn’t be further from the truth.

  21. Finally, we’re all missing the real superbowl commercial outrage, wherein a woman is repeatedly beaten and mistreated by her husband, and made to feel eating disorder shame, and then another woman is beaten at the end by the same original violent perp. Then finally the beaten spouse runs off with the perp, as they often do in real life:

  22. Oh, wait, I reversed the genders on that one, my bad. But that doesn’t matter in this equal world, right?

  23. @Schmoe…

    It’s a common experience for male rape victims to be laughed at and called liars if they contact rape crisis lines.

    Folk supporting Josh and Riverview are seeing that Pepsi ad in this way…
    Our superbowl commercials, showing a woman getting pummeled in the head by a flying diet pepsi is really not that far off from the barbaric treatment and ideas of women elsewhere.

    Is it any wonder male victims are laughed at?

  24. Toby Gibbs
    Gwallan, you’ve got to take a step back and breathe a sec.

    Toby, I’m as cold as ice and as serious as the plague. Note that I’m not declaring war and “organizing our counterattack”.

    Not every campaign needs to reach every target audience on every release.

    THIS particular campaign is untargetted. THAT is it’s problem. You have no idea who is in the audience and Josh is clearly oblivious to the potential harm. There are victims who have been traumatised by viewing this ad. If it was being shown in an environment where the audience was a known quantity that might be a different matter. It should NEVER be seen by young boys, male victims or victims of female perpetrators. For them it’s potentially very dangerous.

    I’d even go so far as to say not every agency needs to serve every audience either.

    You clearly missed where I said…
    “In fact if they are funded only to help female victims or are not qualified to help males those names are entirely proper.”

    Your arguments presume any type of outreach ought to be a one-size-fits-all service.

    Rubbish. I’ve said nothing of the kind. If anything I’ve been arguing the exact opposite.

    I would be curious though, after pointing out what you see as flaws, could you list 3 positive things that Riverview does?

    I could probably list twenty. The flaws all seem to surround Josh himself. The website and videos can be fixed and absolutely should. Unfortunately I can’t say the same about Josh.

    Now, Toby, instead of your condescending bullshit how about you or Josh actually address the very serious matters I and others have raised. Josh and Riverview have acted in a way that has hurt victims. There is no excuse for this.

  25. Josh, That Ad is just plain wrong. I’ll give you five reasons.

    1/ Domestic violence is carried out by men and women alike. I have many friends who have been hit by their wives, often and in front of their children. Their wives often not only admit it, but are proud of it. Women use emotional “violence” against men, many men only have their wives for emotional support so they are utterly alone. this ad supports the myth that domestic violence and rape are just a men’s issues.

    2/ These campaigns damage sensitive boys. I was brought up in the seventies by feminists, I was always told how bad men are and what I should not do. All my relationships with women were initiated by them, mainly by what are now known as cougars. That’s why so many men are angry, the ads will result in boys becoming “doormats” for abusive women. Since all sex is rape, most baby boys will become rapists.

    3/ Ads against men increase the sense of female entitlement. Women are entitled to live without violence, as are men. Women are not entitled treat men however they like, knowing that the men can’t fight back, physically, emotionally or legally. Look at the recent Dr. Phil show, I would characterise that woman’s actions as domestic violence, not a relationship issue. What has happened to our world when funding these days goes to escalate conflict and facilitate break-ups, not conciliation and building loving caring relationships.

    4/ Assumption of male guilt follows from the above. Men are routinely assumed to be the perpetrators of domestic violence. Men accused of rape are assumed to guilty, because “women would not lie”. Despite the increasing number of women who are being convicted of child abuse and child sexual abuse and women who have been proven to lie about rape, men are still assumed to be the perpetrators. Ads like yours will discourage male victims to come forward and create a climate of prejudice against them if they do. the slightest act of violence against a violent woman will exonerate her no matter how violent or even fatal she is.

    5/ Boys (and girls) desperately need male role models: Fathers. The forced break-up of families and removal of fathers is creating social problems that lead to violence. Boys are looking for male role models in the wrong places, for example, gangs.

    The final points,
    There is a power imbalance in marriages these days, she can call the cops and confiscate his assets. he can call the cops, but it will be more likely that he gets carted off and charged.

    “No one has ever wanted me to die because of my gender” ??? War of Independence, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, IraqI, IraqII, Afghanistan. Have I missed any? Yes Plenty.

    The biggest victims of all this are children, but children don’t vote and children don’t donate.

  26. Carol said…
    One in four women in the United States will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. Yet, unfortunately some people don’t want to hear this unpleasant truth.

    I can’t imagine there is anybody who hasn’t heard of one in four. For men it’s one in six. You didn’t mention that at all. Is THAT an uncomfortable truth for you?

    Here’s another “uncomfortable truth”. It’s estimated that, if prison rape is taken into account, there are three times as many instances of men being raped than women.

    And another “uncomfortable truth” in an excerpt from The Invisible Boy…

    there is an alarmingly high rate of sexual abuse by females in the backgrounds of rapists, sex offenders, and sexually aggressive men, 59% (Petrovich and Templer, 1984), 66% (Groth, 1979), 80% (Briere and Smiljanich, 1993). A strong case for the need to identify female perpetrators can be found in Table 4(omitted), which presents the findings from a study of adolescent sex offenders by O’Brien (1989). Male adolescent sex offenders abused by “females only” chose female victims almost exclusively.

    Counsellors of my acquaintance and who work in our prisons assure me it’s about three quarters.

    This is where rapists come from.

    I applaud your willingness to take a risk and use unconventional methods to educate the public.

    Unconventional?

    My post under the Des Moines Register article…

    This sort of advocacy has been going on for nearly two decades now. Unfortunately in that time little seems to have changed in terms of the frequency of violence. Indeed those who persist with this style of advocacy are often the same folk who are constantly telling us how bad it remains.

    The same old message is delivered over and over again in slightly different ways and formats. Still nothing changes. Surely somebody must eventually realise that it isn’t working. Is it not insane to continue going round and round and round on the same old merri-go-round when we already know we’re not really getting anywhere?

    Instead of the audience misunderstanding the message it may very well be the message itself that is fundamentally flawed. Could it be that the purveyors of such messages over such a long period of time don’t actually have any real answers? After all they certainly haven’t stopped any of it.

    Maybe it’s time to be truly progressive. Maybe it’s time to look for approaches that don’t involve casting blame and responsibility randomly to the winds as we’ve been doing for nearly twenty years.

    Violence is a human failing. It’s not a specifically male or female failing. It stems from inadequate and inappropriate coping mechanisms for stress and is mostly learned as children. The notion that this is totally a consequence of male behaviour is not accurate. Indeed the hurts and bruises and injuries and rapes which children too often endure, the real violence they experience, are infrequently caused by men as significantly more than two thirds of the survivors of child abuse can assure you.

    It’s time for something new.

    It’s not about women against men.

    Your very first paragraph puts the lie to this. When will YOU stop making it “about women against men”?

    It’s about educating both girls and boys in our society about what constitutes appropriate sexual behavior.

    I’ve already explained the potential impact of this sort of agenda on young boys. The long term impact on some of them will be the same as their having been raped. It may very well be that it creates rape rather than prevents it.

  27. Josh, thank you so much for the work that you do.

    When my brother and sister-in-law were expecting, my brother breathed a sigh of relief when the ultrasound indicated that he was going to have sons: “Now I don’t have to buy a shotgun.” We’ve had a lot of conversations, both before and since my nephews were born, about that initial relief he felt. The work that you are doing articulates what I’ve been trying to say to him: that he doesn’t get a free pass out of talking about sexual violence since he didn’t have a daughter; that he should want to protect his sons from sexual violence, too; and that he should raise his sons to respect other people’s physical boundaries.

  28. John: 1) That the ad doesn’t mention abuse done by women and only discusses abused done by men (specifically men who abuse their girlfriends) does not mean that the ad dismisses or rejects the idea that women can be abusers. It is illogical to suggest that an ad should be required to discuss all kinds of abuse if it is going to discuss any kind of abuse.

    2) This ad does not say that all men are bad or that all sex is rape.

    3) This is not an ad against men. It is an ad that suggests that parents consider how they are raising their sons to make sure they do not grow up thinking that women are property to be done with as they please.

    4) This ad does nothing to prevent male victims of rape (or male victims of false accusations of rape) from coming forward. As a victim of a false accusation of sexual assault, this ad did not cause me to stop my advocacy for a system that embraces the presumption of innocence and punishes those who falsely accuse.

    5) Not sure how this is anything but a red herring.

  29. Thank you for what you do, Josh Jasper. It’s amazing how many people protest that male victims of sexual violence are ignored, but think nothing of “helping” this by attacking anyone who attempts to help female victims of assault in any way or even suggesting that they exist. You are not going to help men by hurting women, so what’s the point? Why not channel your energies into helping victims if you really care that much?

  30. Daniel Z,

    It is not illogical to suggest that an ad about violence prevention in general should discuss all kinds of abuse. The ad instead focuses on a specific type of abuse, which leaves viewers with the false impression that male-on-female violence is the only kind of violence that occurs. That may or may not have been Jasper’s intent (I believe it was), but that is the impression it leaves.

    As for your other points, while they are rather easy to address, it really makes no sense to argue that the ad does not isolate male victims when you have actual male victims telling you that the ad made them feel invisible and marginalized.

  31. It wasn’t an ad about violence prevention in general. It was very specifically about male-on-female rape. You might as well complain that it wasn’t about suicide bombing.

  32. Helen, if you read Jasper’s responses on the Youtube page and his two posts, he claims that Riverview wants to prevent all violence. That is not the impression one gets from the commercial because only male-on-female violence is mentioned, and it mentioned in a very questionable way. Jasper wants people to believe he and his organization assist male victims and address abuse committed by women, yet his ads tell a completely different story.

  33. Toysoldier: There is no reason anybody should assume that the discussion of one type of rape scenario in any way denies others.

    And what kind of “actual male victims” are you talking about. I am an actual male victim of a false accusation of rape. This does not mean I have to be bitter or angry at anyone other than the woman who sought to make my life a living hell with her lies. That doesn’t meant that I have to imagine that videos say things that they do not say when they discuss one type of sexual violence.

  34. Daniel, I am talking about the number of male victims who have posted here and on the Youtube page stating that they found the commercial offensive, dismissive or triggering. That there are male victims who would not be bothered by it is obvious. However, the suggestion being made was that no actual male victims were harmed by the commercial, which is untrue.

  35. I am saying that there is nothing in the commercial to be harmed by and the idea that the commercial is harmful because it discusses only one kind of rape scenario is absurd. It is even more absurd to suggest that a commercial is dismisses or denies other forms of rape because it only mentions one kind.

    By your logic, since this commercial only discusses rape between a boyfriend and girlfriend, this commercial also denies rape between men and women who are strangers.

  36. Fist bumps to you Josh! Keep fighting the fight, as will I!

  37. “I know now who you are and will begin organizing our counterattack.

    You have absolutely no idea who “we” are. And you have no idea where to start shooting.

    Face it, the enemy is faceless. We are everywhere and yet nowhere.

    And to be more accurate, you are not organizing a counterattack, but rather a counter-counterattack.

    The first “attack” was your own. Then came the actual counterattack. Now you want to attack the counterattack.

    And on it goes….

  38. “3) This is not an ad against men. It is an ad that suggests that parents consider how they are raising their sons to make sure they do not grow up thinking that women are property to be done with as they please.

    Daniel Z., if that is what the ad suggests, then it is essentially promoting the radical feminist narrative about so-called “rape culture”. Perhaps Josh is politically naive about that.

    Hopefully that clarifies where a lot of the angry commenters are “coming from”, even if not all of them are able to articulate this clearly.

  39. I said nothing about rape culture. I have seen parents, fathers particularly, who still to this day treat their wives as if they are 2nd class citizens. They treat their women in their lives that they are somehow inferior and not equal partners in their relationship. A boy who grows up with a father who treats his wife as property will have a stronger chance in believing the same thing about any person he dates in the future.

    This ad is not saying all men are rapists or that even all men can become rapists. It is saying that parents have a responsibility to raise their children properly and to have respect for the women in their lives and not treat them as just another semen receptacle.

  40. “I said nothing about rape culture. “

    I know you didn’t — or at least not directly. But I did. Feminism spreads ideological propaganda about “rape culture” all the time, and what you are saying (and said just now) feeds directly into that discourse.

    “This ad is not saying all men are rapists or that even all men can become rapists. It is saying that parents have a responsibility to raise their children properly and to have respect for the women in their lives and not treat them as just another semen receptacle.”

    This ad spreads anti-male feminist memes. No, it does not directly “say” what you refer to, but it skates a mite too close to the political third rail — so to speak. It shows a very disturbing lack of sensitivity to the present political context, and as such, pours gasoline on the fire. As we have dramatically seen.

    Finally, if (as you suggest) it is the responsibility of men to have respect for the women in their lives — then it is equally the responsibility of women to have respect for the men in their lives.

    Yet for some odd reason, this two-sided necessity gets addressed by society in a lopsided manner, with all the moral onus thrown on the male side.

    So, until the necessary balance gets restored in this realm, it is unspeakably ill-mannered to sermonize at men about any imagined responsibility toward women, and one can hardly blame men if they do no take it kindly.

    To put it tersely: men have no responsibility toward women UNLESS women have responsibility toward men. It is either a two-way street, OR . . it is closed to all traffic.

    That sounds like “equality” to me. So I guess that makes me a feminist. How ironic, eh? 😉

  41. That my words may be used by others who believe in a “rape culture” is irrelevant. I am not convinced pro or con that we have a culture that is a “rape culture”. I am rather new to the term. But what I say is my beliefs. I shouldn’t have to self censor because other people promoting an agenda you seem to not agree with also agree with me.

    The problem I have with your argument is that to say that men should have respect for women is wrong because the ad is not saying that women should have respect for men too.

    Commercials are 30 second sound bits. To expect them to contain the whole story is absurd.


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